ROBERT: They would salivate and then eat the meat. They designed from scratch a towering parachute drop in blue translucent Lego pieces. Fan, light, lean. You know, it goes back to anthropomorphizing plant behaviors. I'm a research associate professor at the University of Sydney. Fan first, light after. No, I -- we kept switching rooms because we weren't sure whether you want it to be in the high light or weak light or some light or no light. And you can actually see this happen. ROBERT: The plants would always grow towards the light. This is by the way, what her entire family had done, her dad and her grandparents. So there seemed to be, under the ground, this fungal freeway system connecting one tree to the next to the next to the next. You got somewhere to go? So there's an oak tree right there. No question there. But it didn't happen. That would be sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals. Now the plants if they were truly dumb they'd go 50/50. We were so inconsistent, so clumsy, that the plants were smart to keep playing it safe and closing themselves up. JENNIFER FRAZER: And then they did experiments with the same fungus that I'm telling you about that was capturing the springtails, and they hooked it up to a tree. Okay. ROBERT: When we last left off, I'm just saying you just said intelligence. They play with sound and story in a way that's incredibly intriguing, I was instantly hooked with More Perfect. But over the next two decades, we did experiment after experiment after experiment that verified that story. Sorry! Good. ROBERT: So you can -- you can see this is like a game of telephone. JAD: The part where the water pipe was, the pipe was on the outside of the pot? No, no, no, no, no. ROBERT: That there was a kind of a moral objection to thinking it this way. MONICA GAGLIANO: I remember going in at the uni on a Sunday afternoon. We dropped. This is not so good" signal through the network. SUZANNE SIMARD: Douglas fir, birch and cedar. And so of course, that was only the beginning. Okay? So Monica moves the fans to a new place one more time. ROBERT: And so we're up there in this -- in this old forest with this guy. I mean, to say that a plant is choosing a direction, I don't know. ROBERT: I think that's fair. And the salivation equivalent was the tilt of the plant? SUZANNE SIMARD: Where we've all been, you know, doing our daily business. Like trees of different species are supposed to fight each other for sunshine, right? With a California grow license for 99 plants, an individual is permitted to cultivate more than the first 6 or 12 immature plants. JENNIFER FRAZER: Well, maybe. Well, they do it because the tree has something the fungus needs, and the fungus has something the tree needs. And I'm wondering whether Monica is gonna run into, as she tries to make plants more animal-like, whether she's just gonna run into this malice from the scientific -- I'm just wondering, do you share any of that? Then she takes the little light and the little fan and moves them to the other side of the plant. Why waste hot water? ROBERT: But the drop was just shocking and sudden enough for the little plant to ROBERT: Do its reflex defense thing. View SmartyPlantsRadioLab Transcript (2).docx from CHEM 001A at Pasadena City College. So I think what she would argue is that we kind of proved her point. All right. It's almost as if these plants -- it's almost as if they know where our pipes are. Kind of even like, could there be a brain, or could there be ears or, you know, just sort of like going off the deep end there. ], [ROY HALLING: Radiolab is produced by Jad Abumrad. Like, if you put food into one tree over here, it would end up in another tree maybe 30 feet away over there, and then a third tree over here, and then a fourth tree over there, and a fifth tree over there. So it's not that it couldn't fold up, it's just that during the dropping, it learned that it didn't need to. And then those little tubes will wrap themselves into place. These sensitive hairs he argues, would probably be able to feel that tiny difference. Yes, in a lot of cases it is the fungus. Maybe not with the helmet, but yeah. If there was only the fan, would the plant After three days of this training regime, it is now time to test the plants with just the fan, no light. Each one an ounce, an ounce, an ounce, an ounce, an ounce. Again, science writer Jennifer Frazer. They somehow have a dye, and don't ask me how they know this or how they figured it out, but they have a little stain that they can put on the springtails to tell if they're alive or dead. MONICA GAGLIANO: Yeah, I know. The same one that are used in computers like, you know, really tiny. Little fan goes on, the light goes on. Now the plants if they were truly dumb, they'd go 50/50. And the classic case of this is if you go back a few centuries ago, someone noticed that plants have sex. They just don't like to hear words like "mind" or "hear" or "see" or "taste" for a plant, because it's too animal and too human. This story was nurtured and fed and ultimately produced by Annie McEwen. She took some plants, put them in a pot that restricted the roots so they could only go in one of just two directions, toward the water pipe or away from the water pipe. So they didn't. We ask deep questions and use investigative journalism to get the answers. And I do that in my brain. He's looking up at us quite scared and very unhappy that he was covered in SUZANNE SIMARD: And toilet paper. Like, if you put food into one tree over here, it would end up in another tree maybe 30 feet away over there, and then a third tree over here, and then a fourth tree over there, and a fifth tree over there. This is Roy Halling, researcher specializing in fungi at the New York Botanical Garden. Is there anyone whose job it is to draw a little chalk outlines around the springtails? ROBERT: So light is -- if you shine light on a plant you're, like, feeding it? JENNIFER FRAZER: With when they actually saw and smelled and ate meat. I don't know why you have problems with this. Verified account Protected Tweets @ Protected Tweets @ AATISH BHATIA: So this is our plant dropper. But we are in the home inspection business. ROBERT: Now that's a very, you know, animals do this experiment, but it got Monica thinking. So the roots can go either left or to the right. And again. They need light to grow. It's condensation. He's looking up at us quite scared and very unhappy that he was covered in And toilet paper. JENNIFER FRAZER: Minerals from the soil. Jennifer told Latif and I about another role that these fungi play. Nothing delicious at all. JENNIFER FRAZER: So Pavlov started by getting some dogs and some meat and a bell. ROBERT: Nothing happened at all. Radiolab is supported in part by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, enhancing public understanding of science and technology in the modern world. ROBERT: So let's go to the first. And we can move it up, and we can drop it. ROBERT: Eventually, she came back after ROBERT: And they still remembered. JAD: Yes. SUZANNE SIMARD: Yeah, he was a curious dog. There's not a leak in the glass. Well, I asked Suzanne about that. ROBERT: No. Yes. So he brought them some meat. JAD: That apparently -- jury's still out -- are going to make me rethink my stance on plants. No. SUZANNE SIMARD: And there was a lot of skepticism at the time. They remembered what had happened three days before, that dropping didn't hurt, that they didn't have to fold up. I found a little water! JAD: Couldn't it just be an entirely different interpretation here? But maybe it makes her sort of more open-minded than -- than someone who's just looking at a notebook. Robert, I have -- you know what? I remember going in at the uni on a Sunday afternoon. I mean again, it's a tree. Like, from the trees perspective, how much of their sugar are they giving to the fungus? To remember? [laughs]. Nothing delicious at all. JENNIFER FRAZER: Or it could be like, "Okay, I'm not doing so well, so I'm gonna hide this down here in my ceiling.". He'd fallen in. So ROBERT: He says something about that's the wrong season. Not really. ROBERT: But what -- how would a plant hear something? So there's these little insects that lives in the soil, these just adorable little creatures called springtails. Testing one, two. Can the tree feel you ripping the roots out like that? MONICA GAGLIANO: Pretty much like the concept of Pavlov with his dog applied. No, Summer is a real person and her last name happens to be spelled R-A-Y-N-E. ROBERT: This story was nurtured and fed and ultimately produced by Annie McEwen. And I mean, like, really loved the outdoors. You just used a very interesting word. Can you make your own food? ROBERT: And it's in that little space between them that they make the exchange. That's amazing and fantastic. Then she takes the little light and the little fan and moves them to the other side of the plant. And it's good it was Sunday. But they do have root hairs. It was a simple little experiment. Fan, light, lean. The bell, the meat and the salivation. No, it's far more exciting than that. Start of message. On the outside of the pipe. These guys are actually doing it." Picasso! Monica's work has actually gotten quite a bit of attention from other plant biologists. So after much trial and error with click and hums and buzzes She found that the one stimulus that would be perfect was A little fan. That is actually a clue in what turns out to be a deep, deep mystery. And the tree happens to be a weeping willow. It was summertime. MONICA GAGLIANO: Yeah. Just the sound of it? LARRY UBELL: All right, if she's going to do this experiment, most likely she's going to use cold water. But it was originally done with -- with a dog. It was magic for me. So we've done experiments, and other people in different labs around the world, they've been able to figure out that if a tree's injured ROBERT: It'll cry out in a kind of chemical way. MONICA GAGLIANO: Yeah, tested it in my lab. So after the first few, the plants already realized that that was not necessary. I don't think Monica knows the answer to that, but she does believe that, you know, that we humans We are a little obsessed with the brain. This is Ashley Harding from St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada. ROBERT: They would salivate and then eat the meat. Today, Robert drags Jad along ona parade for the surprising feats of brainless plants. Then Monica hoists the plant back up again and drops it again. And when you look at the map, what you see are circles sprouting lines and then connecting to other circles also sprouting lines. That was my reaction. ROBERT: So you just did what Pavlov did to a plant. I mean, can you remember what you were doing a month ago? Let me just back up for a second so that you can -- to set the scene for you. I know, I know. But the Ubells have noticed that even if a tree is 10 or 20, 30 yards away from the water pipe, for some reason the tree roots creep with uncanny regularity straight toward the water pipe. And so of course, that was only the beginning. No question there. And it was almost like, let's see how much I have to stretch it here before you forget. Thud. Would just suck up through photosynthesis. I don't know. MONICA GAGLIANO: Like a defensive mechanism. And then I would cover them in plastic bags. But now we know, after having looked at their DNA, that fungi are actually very closely related to animals. MONICA GAGLIANO: Exactly, which is pretty amazing. It's 10 o'clock and I have to go. Here's the water.". Pulled out a is that a root of some sort? Turns the fan on, turns the light on, and the plant turns and leans that way. Then Monica hoists the plant back up again and drops it again. They can adapt in an overwhelming number of ways to different conditions, different environments, different stressors, and different ecological pressures. It's a very interesting experiment, and I really want to see whether it's correct or not. I mean, to say that a plant is choosing a direction, I don't know. ROBERT: But instead of dogs, she had pea plants in a dark room. We're just learning about them now, and they're so interesting. It's okay, puppy. The Douglas fir became diseased and -- and died. JENNIFER FRAZER: But no, they're all linked to each other! And so I don't have a problem with that. On one side, instead of the pipe with water, she attaches an MP3 player with a little speaker playing a recording of And then on the other side, Monica has another MP3 player with a speaker. Wait. And she says this time they relaxed almost immediately. And again. Plants are complex and ancient organisms. And then I needed to -- the difficulty I guess, of the experiment was to find something that will be quite irrelevant and really meant nothing to the plant to start with. Charts. I'll put it down in my fungi. And again. In this case, a little blue LED light. ROBERT: Connecting your house to the main city water line that's in the middle of the street. These sensitive hairs he argues, would probably be able to feel that tiny difference. If the -- if the tube system is giving the trees the minerals, how is it getting it, the minerals? 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